I'd like to believe people wouldn't do that (the attacks themselves, much less the acts behind the propaganda machine) to each other, but day after day, there is evidence to the contrary all around me. *sigh*
Richard Finucane
· 1 year ago
I agree totally with you here. The thing that bothers me about today is that those who feel we have been unnecessarily lead down this road by scare tactics focus on the things that have happened since that day. What today probably should be is to honor and respect all those that lost their lives that day. I can't seem to personally separate the two though and deep down that makes me sad.
Mo Jo
· 1 year ago
I feel your pain... I recently found out that someone I want to grade school with died in one of the towers. A Mr. Robert Chin... Nicest guy you could know, I wish we had been better friends. The stupidity of my youth.
I never believed what is told to us as fact and I truly believe those responsible for this horrible day and all the tragedy that followed are still out there enjoying their lives, benefiting from it and quite happy. That is what kills me. We are all Hamlets in this country and it is in our inaction that torments us. Seems that the action needs to be taken is too much to bare. So we don't act and the ones who won't look at this tragedy closer, don't want to see that there is something wrong with the America we were raised to love.
I don't want to say my opinion but do a little looking and you will be shocked at what you find.
I like "Zeitgeist" as a good overall look at how the world kind of works but if you are looking for something about just the events of September 11th, look up a film call "911 Mysteries" most cold hand facts...
Some may say, "Why would you bring this up and a day like this, actually it's the 12th but you know what I mean. I say, we must, the ghost of those no longer here call to us. To honor them, we must find ALL the facts and find those responsible, take them out of our society to let the world know WE take care of our own. And take care of our own house.
Sinead
· 1 year ago
I live in Ireland but I remember when this happened. It was very shocking! I saw a documentary about some firemen who went into the buildings. I'll never forget it. This had worldwide impact i think...
Mo Jo
· 1 year ago
Sigh indeed...
Hope_Elizabeth
· 1 year ago
I have to say that all the comments posted are thought provoking. I have to admit, however, that in the midst of my sadness I am angry. I am angry that this happened in our country, the "greatest" country in the world. I am angry that George W. used this as an excuse to go to war in Iraq. My cousin survived the war (barely), and now my brother-in-law is there. I am angry because no one in our government will give me a straight answer about why our soldiers are there. It is not because of terrorism or "weapons of mass destruction." It is not because of the atrocities that Saddam carried out against his own people. As Joel pointed out, there are many countries where similar horrors are carried out each day and we do nothing to help those people. There are other countries (North Korea, for instance) that have nuclear weapons capabilities, yet we let them go along like we don't care. We haven't stopped the people responsible for 9/11 - we are merely retaliating against the innocent. I am angry that our soldiers are being killed, and I am angry that innocent Islamic people are being killed, that their lives have been turned upside down for no apparent reason. I am angry because I believe we are doing these awful things because of our addiction to oil. I took time out to think about the lives lost on 9/11, but I also thought of the things we have done in the name of fighting terror, things that I worry make us terrorists as well. If you really want to be open-minded and try to understand this issue from all sides, then I recommend that you read the book "Baghdad Burning: Girl Blog from Iraq." It is a collection of blog posts written by a real Iraqi, about the reality of what Iraq has become in our efforts to stop terrorism.
Chelsea G.
· 1 year ago
Amen sister.
send snail mail =)
· 1 year ago
I don't think you should be ashamed at all. So some of the people at the top are really messed up but this isn't you... this isn't me. I'm proud of our country. I'm proud that when I look in the tech news I see innovations from berkeley and mit..Everyday! Just because a couple (ok maybe thousands) of people ruin it doesnt make who we are worse. =)
wakemenow
· 1 year ago
Well now, we did elect them. Or if nothing else, we've failed to impeach them.
To blame the rulers and ignore our own complicity is what allows history to repeat.
AM
wakemenow
· 1 year ago
deleted - accidental repeated posting
Gadget Mania
· 1 year ago
This incident was something that changed my life forever..
I and my mom had a big fight and I was packing my bags to get out of the house... As I was approaching the door, the news channel started flashing the images and news of the incident and I stood still...
My mom was there too and we both stood in silence and she started crying...
That moment I realized how precious life is and how precious family is....
To me nothing else matters.. the politics.. the scandal or whatever... to me those lives matter and all I can do is pray...
eulogy example
· 1 year ago
I think that there is no doubt that these people cannot be accounted for... There is not much hope in this nation...
All we can do is pray for those souls and make sure within our power the ones close to us are safe...
The system is going to get us no where.
Joel_101
· 1 year ago
The following is my opinion. It may include links to sites that may provoke thought and challenge others opinions. In no way am I trying to say or imply that I am right or wrong.
I too will give you something to think about.
The first thing I want everyone to think about is what would happen in many other countries if we expressed contrary views, thoughts, and opinions (factual or not)?
Regardless of gender, our doors would be kicked in, we and our families would be beaten, raped, tortured (drilling of body parts, flaying, electrocution, amputations, breaking of bones, and many other things), imprisoned or killed without a trial. Ask yourself why many people who protest the actions in their countries do it from another country. The people in those countries without any kind of rights know the true meaning of fear.
“There is no excuse…..” --- Maybe, maybe not, but there are explanations.
9/11 – we were attacked by Islamic terrorists. Iraq/Afghanistan – The U.S. and other countries are fighting a global war on terrorism. Although those two countries seem to maintain or make the news media headlines, they are not the only countries around the world that the U.S. and other nations are waging that global war on terrorism.
People usually die in both. Friends and family of the deceased are affected by their passing. Survivors are usually traumatized. Observers can also be traumatized.
The U.S. as a country, nor its government, is not consumed with war, greed, tragedy, death, oil, lack of money, foreclosures, or lost jobs. Individuals in both can be consumed or not with any of the aforementioned. --- International terrorism is a fact, not fiction. 9/11 was not the beginning, nor the end, of terrorist attacks against the U.S. or other sovereign nations. --- Americans should at the very least educate themselves and be aware of the threat. Hurricanes threaten coastal dwellers, but those people do not live in fear or they would move where there is no threat. I could use a sexual predator analogy as well. --- One persons brainwashing is another’s education or awareness. See hurricane analogy above. --- The Patriot Act, changes to the Patriot Act and other legislation that empowers the government to act quickly to threats are not sneaky. Our elected officials have to vote and the judiciary has to approve these things. Do I agree with all provisions? No. Do I think some are necessary? Yes. What I fear in the above is lack of judicial oversight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act http://www.aclu.org/safefree/resources/17343res... --- I was in the Brussels IAP during the late 70’s when a group of terrorists started throwing grenades. They sure did not look like Americans to me. I could relate dozens of other first hand encounters/stories on this topic, but do not need to. --- I check out my windows several times a day/night (seriously) – no one is spying on me. My phones can’t be tapped in the conventional sense without me knowing about it – and still no one has done it. Phone conversations have been monitored by keyword methods for a long time, particularly international calls. I would hazard that every country with the technology does the same thing. Email and internet traffic is also monitored.
Probable cause allows law enforcement to do things, it always has. Terrorism is an immediate threat and judicial delays can cost lives etc… Are mistakes made? Yes. Mistakes are made by law enforcement over probable cause in non-terror related things daily. If a friend of mine was being attacked or raped I would not hesitate to stop it – even if that meant kicking down a door. If I was in law enforcement and I had tactical (immediate) information that someone had kidnapped a child and was in house X on street Y, I would not hesitate to kick down that door either.
Terrorist watch lists have existed for a long time. Only now they are bigger and electronic, which can create mistakes. I hear this argument occasionally, but I wonder why the U.S. still has most wanted lists by the FBI and DOJ and no one complains. I also do not hear many complaints about law enforcement having data bases of criminals. I suppose the sexual predator list is also unfair. Nothing is perfect, and we can not have our cake and eat it too under any of these circumstances.
I am sorry for anyone that feels ashamed of the U.S. and my usual reply is to tell the person to go live in Somalia for two years. Or some other messed up country. It’s hard to appreciate something you take for granted, even if it’s not perfect.
I am sorry for anyone that feels ashamed of President Bush. Having spent my military career from Carter to Clinton, I was never ashamed of my Presidents, even when I did not agree with them. All of them did (remember – my opinion) good and bad things. After all, not only were they human, they had to make tough decisions that did not always turn out the way they intended. I still carry a bit of a grudge against Clinton for what happened in Somalia, but I also recognize some of the good things he did.
If anyone thinks that McCain or Obama are going to do anything to radically change the global war on terror, I would challenge you to dig deeper and to think. History is weird and like 9/11, people tend to forget things like Waco, Ruby Ridge, Desert One, and other fiascos/failures, as well as successes. Presidents have always been faced with problems and tough decisions regardless of their political party.
I am always reminded of a quote from Benjamin Franklin:
“They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.”
I always wonder if he were alive today, would he still say the same thing. I suppose if we Americans still had the same values (Religion and pro-life) and we were all armed and willing to defend ourselves and this country………………
Just some thought provoking words
Lemur
· 1 year ago
A few things things: the things the government is doing now, with the excuse of 9/11, are the things that, if unchecked (and no one seems to be checking them), will lead to doors being kicked in and people being tortured and 'disappeared'. Just because you haven't been watched and your phone hasn't been tapped (that you know of) doesn't mean it doesn't happen to many others, and it doesn't mean it won't happen to you in the future if it's decided that you could be a 'threat'. And one last thing. Those of us who point out the injustice in the U.S when we see it, and express our dissatisfaction with our country and its government, do not do so out of ingratitude, or unawareness of how bad it could be. We do it because we don't want our country to become those other countries where it is that bad. We do it because deep down we believe the USA can be better. We are disappointed in it because we love it. If we didn't think it deserved better, we wouldn't stay and complain, or stay and say nothing. We would leave. But if no one speaks up, nothing can get better.
Joel_101
· 1 year ago
I did say thought provoking. Like you and many others I question our government. I can see dangerous waters if eyes are removed from this legislation. 9/11 was just the impetus for this legislation. After almost 7 years I still do not see any significant evidence that big brother is usurping the powers under that act to do anything except what was intended, to combat terrorism. Are mistakes made? Yes.
I applaud speaking up and questioning issues, even if I do not agree. I do not want to watch our civil liberties abused. Unfortunately I understand the need for certain portions of this legislation. Apparently, so did a majority of our elected officials, not just the President. Both candidates support the act.
This legislation was and is a tough decision. Critics of anything like this would be just as critical if it did not exist and people lost lives because of it. Where do we find the balance of protecting our liberties and protecting lives? I do not know the answer.
Innocent until proven guilty is something many of us like to say when we or others are confronted with legal issues. Unfortunately, many think otherwise when it’s an issue where they are the victim. To be fair to our government as well to its citizens, I believe that all are innocent until proven guilty. If we are going to be for something, it should not include exceptions, or should it?
Some more provoking thought
menstrualpoetry
· 1 year ago
I definitely agree with "innocent until proven guilty" but like this post stated and the movie clip stated and the rest of the movie stated if you watched it (and paid attention to it--The clip is right at the end of the post if you are interested in more thought provoking material about this government that you are standing up for and excusing for its abuse of power and treating its own citizens like terrorists) the American government has been proven guilty. Say it with me here: The American government has been proven guilty.
For that reason, it is the responsibility of the people of this country to speak out about the atrocious behavior the American government has and has had for the past several decades. The American government did not just kill thousands of its own people to go into this war, it is the same behavior they used to start Vietnam and WWII. To be fair to our government is to speak out about what they are doing and what they can do to make it better and no, it should not include exceptions and because of that, we should think nothing of putting George Bush and his entire administration behind bars. That is what we would do to "terrorists" and that is what we should do to the administration who killed their own people and is continuing to kill their own soldiers by sending them into a war that is not justified to die in vain. Period.
Joel_101
· 1 year ago
Holly,
I can't count the number of these videos and so called evidence I have examined over the past several years. So yes, I watched it. My best friend, a fellow veteran, and I debated this for almost 4 years, digging real deep to find truths. After it was all said and done, we could find no conclusive evidence to support a government conspiracy. I suggest to you that no one has or will find conclusive evidence and if you would please take the time to check the link I posted on this, you may understand why.
So I can not in good conscience attribute any guilt at this time.
wakemenow
· 1 year ago
Joel,
There's so much evidence available out there that it's astounding and makes you wonder what the hell is wrong with the average American that we're not able to see it for what it is.
You're basing your assumptions and beliefs on what you want to believe, which is within your right to do so, but simply because we wish something were true doesn't make it so. Can you find supporters to back your claims? Oh yes, plenty of them, but again, that proves nothing. Because a veteran buddy couldn't find conclusive evidence doesn't and shouldn't imply that said evidence doesn't exist.
You've spent years...well so have some of the us who originally started out as patriotic and supportive of our current administration's claims after 9/11. It's heart-wrenching to see it for what it is and to be faced with no other choice but to scrutinize the actions and intent of your government (both past and present), only to succumb to being labeled as just another "conspiracy theorist" when you attempt to make your findings known to others. It's not pleasurable to weigh the evidence that 9/11 in fact does NOT appear to be the work of a terrorist organization in Afghanistan (and Iraq doesn't even enter into the equation as no ties have been substantiated to date), but instead carried out by officials in Pakistan's ISI, funded by people within our own country: http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?geop...
No, I don't like having to admit that to myself as I'm sure few others do, but the truth is worth knowing. Our country was changed for the worse after 9/11, and that is incredibly unfortunate. What's encouraging is that out of this national emergency and the loss of a few thousand of our brothers and sisters, more and more people are beginning to question what's being sold to the public as facts and are looking back at the history of this country, spanning over the last century and a half, in search of answers for why and how we've reached the point we're at now.
Very little in the way of positive change has emerged from the deeply saddening/maddening events of 9/11, but these inquiries are perhaps the most necessary and honestly patriotic endeavor we the people can undertake in an effort to heal our country and ourselves. It's not about causing trouble or making people feel bad for believing the Bush hype or the Clinton hype or the Reagan hype, etc.; it's about caring enough about what this country was founded on and seeking justice for the lives robbed under false pretenses (in the world trade towers just as with our troops in the Middle East).
I commend you Holly for posting Zeitgeist. It's an excellent, important film. And just wanted to say to Lemur that I appreciated your post up above. Thanks.
All Comments
I never believed what is told to us as fact and I truly believe those responsible for this horrible day and all the tragedy that followed are still out there enjoying their lives, benefiting from it and quite happy. That is what kills me. We are all Hamlets in this country and it is in our inaction that torments us. Seems that the action needs to be taken is too much to bare. So we don't act and the ones who won't look at this tragedy closer, don't want to see that there is something wrong with the America we were raised to love.
I don't want to say my opinion but do a little looking and you will be shocked at what you find.
I like "Zeitgeist" as a good overall look at how the world kind of works but if you are looking for something about just the events of September 11th, look up a film call "911 Mysteries" most cold hand facts...
Some may say, "Why would you bring this up and a day like this, actually it's the 12th but you know what I mean. I say, we must, the ghost of those no longer here call to us. To honor them, we must find ALL the facts and find those responsible, take them out of our society to let the world know WE take care of our own. And take care of our own house.
To blame the rulers and ignore our own complicity is what allows history to repeat.
AM
I and my mom had a big fight and I was packing my bags to get out of the house... As I was approaching the door, the news channel started flashing the images and news of the incident and I stood still...
My mom was there too and we both stood in silence and she started crying...
That moment I realized how precious life is and how precious family is....
To me nothing else matters.. the politics.. the scandal or whatever... to me those lives matter and all I can do is pray...
All we can do is pray for those souls and make sure within our power the ones close to us are safe...
The system is going to get us no where.
I too will give you something to think about.
The first thing I want everyone to think about is what would happen in many other countries if we expressed contrary views, thoughts, and opinions (factual or not)?
Regardless of gender, our doors would be kicked in, we and our families would be beaten, raped, tortured (drilling of body parts, flaying, electrocution, amputations, breaking of bones, and many other things), imprisoned or killed without a trial. Ask yourself why many people who protest the actions in their countries do it from another country. The people in those countries without any kind of rights know the true meaning of fear.
“There is no excuse…..”
---
Maybe, maybe not, but there are explanations.
9/11 – we were attacked by Islamic terrorists.
Iraq/Afghanistan – The U.S. and other countries are fighting a global war on terrorism. Although those two countries seem to maintain or make the news media headlines, they are not the only countries around the world that the U.S. and other nations are waging that global war on terrorism.
People usually die in both. Friends and family of the deceased are affected by their passing. Survivors are usually traumatized. Observers can also be traumatized.
The U.S. as a country, nor its government, is not consumed with war, greed, tragedy, death, oil, lack of money, foreclosures, or lost jobs. Individuals in both can be consumed or not with any of the aforementioned.
---
International terrorism is a fact, not fiction. 9/11 was not the beginning, nor the end, of terrorist attacks against the U.S. or other sovereign nations.
---
Americans should at the very least educate themselves and be aware of the threat. Hurricanes threaten coastal dwellers, but those people do not live in fear or they would move where there is no threat. I could use a sexual predator analogy as well.
---
One persons brainwashing is another’s education or awareness. See hurricane analogy above.
---
The Patriot Act, changes to the Patriot Act and other legislation that empowers the government to act quickly to threats are not sneaky. Our elected officials have to vote and the judiciary has to approve these things. Do I agree with all provisions? No. Do I think some are necessary? Yes. What I fear in the above is lack of judicial oversight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/resources/17343res...
---
I was in the Brussels IAP during the late 70’s when a group of terrorists started throwing grenades. They sure did not look like Americans to me. I could relate dozens of other first hand encounters/stories on this topic, but do not need to.
---
I check out my windows several times a day/night (seriously) – no one is spying on me. My phones can’t be tapped in the conventional sense without me knowing about it – and still no one has done it. Phone conversations have been monitored by keyword methods for a long time, particularly international calls. I would hazard that every country with the technology does the same thing. Email and internet traffic is also monitored.
Probable cause allows law enforcement to do things, it always has. Terrorism is an immediate threat and judicial delays can cost lives etc… Are mistakes made? Yes. Mistakes are made by law enforcement over probable cause in non-terror related things daily. If a friend of mine was being attacked or raped I would not hesitate to stop it – even if that meant kicking down a door. If I was in law enforcement and I had tactical (immediate) information that someone had kidnapped a child and was in house X on street Y, I would not hesitate to kick down that door either.
Terrorist watch lists have existed for a long time. Only now they are bigger and electronic, which can create mistakes. I hear this argument occasionally, but I wonder why the U.S. still has most wanted lists by the FBI and DOJ and no one complains. I also do not hear many complaints about law enforcement having data bases of criminals. I suppose the sexual predator list is also unfair. Nothing is perfect, and we can not have our cake and eat it too under any of these circumstances.
I am sorry for anyone that feels ashamed of the U.S. and my usual reply is to tell the person to go live in Somalia for two years. Or some other messed up country. It’s hard to appreciate something you take for granted, even if it’s not perfect.
I am sorry for anyone that feels ashamed of President Bush. Having spent my military career from Carter to Clinton, I was never ashamed of my Presidents, even when I did not agree with them. All of them did (remember – my opinion) good and bad things. After all, not only were they human, they had to make tough decisions that did not always turn out the way they intended. I still carry a bit of a grudge against Clinton for what happened in Somalia, but I also recognize some of the good things he did.
If anyone thinks that McCain or Obama are going to do anything to radically change the global war on terror, I would challenge you to dig deeper and to think. History is weird and like 9/11, people tend to forget things like Waco, Ruby Ridge, Desert One, and other fiascos/failures, as well as successes. Presidents have always been faced with problems and tough decisions regardless of their political party.
A site that challenges 9/11 myth/fact.
http://www.911myths.com/index.html
Terrorism attacks – Just some – too many to list here
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp2...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/608775/posts
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp2...
I am always reminded of a quote from Benjamin Franklin:
“They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.”
I always wonder if he were alive today, would he still say the same thing. I suppose if we Americans still had the same values (Religion and pro-life) and we were all armed and willing to defend ourselves and this country………………
Just some thought provoking words
Just because you haven't been watched and your phone hasn't been tapped (that you know of) doesn't mean it doesn't happen to many others, and it doesn't mean it won't happen to you in the future if it's decided that you could be a 'threat'.
And one last thing. Those of us who point out the injustice in the U.S when we see it, and express our dissatisfaction with our country and its government, do not do so out of ingratitude, or unawareness of how bad it could be. We do it because we don't want our country to become those other countries where it is that bad. We do it because deep down we believe the USA can be better. We are disappointed in it because we love it. If we didn't think it deserved better, we wouldn't stay and complain, or stay and say nothing. We would leave.
But if no one speaks up, nothing can get better.
I applaud speaking up and questioning issues, even if I do not agree. I do not want to watch our civil liberties abused. Unfortunately I understand the need for certain portions of this legislation. Apparently, so did a majority of our elected officials, not just the President. Both candidates support the act.
This legislation was and is a tough decision. Critics of anything like this would be just as critical if it did not exist and people lost lives because of it. Where do we find the balance of protecting our liberties and protecting lives? I do not know the answer.
Innocent until proven guilty is something many of us like to say when we or others are confronted with legal issues. Unfortunately, many think otherwise when it’s an issue where they are the victim. To be fair to our government as well to its citizens, I believe that all are innocent until proven guilty. If we are going to be for something, it should not include exceptions, or should it?
Some more provoking thought
For that reason, it is the responsibility of the people of this country to speak out about the atrocious behavior the American government has and has had for the past several decades. The American government did not just kill thousands of its own people to go into this war, it is the same behavior they used to start Vietnam and WWII. To be fair to our government is to speak out about what they are doing and what they can do to make it better and no, it should not include exceptions and because of that, we should think nothing of putting George Bush and his entire administration behind bars. That is what we would do to "terrorists" and that is what we should do to the administration who killed their own people and is continuing to kill their own soldiers by sending them into a war that is not justified to die in vain. Period.
I can't count the number of these videos and so called evidence I have examined over the past several years. So yes, I watched it. My best friend, a fellow veteran, and I debated this for almost 4 years, digging real deep to find truths. After it was all said and done, we could find no conclusive evidence to support a government conspiracy. I suggest to you that no one has or will find conclusive evidence and if you would please take the time to check the link I posted on this, you may understand why.
So I can not in good conscience attribute any guilt at this time.
There's so much evidence available out there that it's astounding and makes you wonder what the hell is wrong with the average American that we're not able to see it for what it is.
You're basing your assumptions and beliefs on what you want to believe, which is within your right to do so, but simply because we wish something were true doesn't make it so. Can you find supporters to back your claims? Oh yes, plenty of them, but again, that proves nothing. Because a veteran buddy couldn't find conclusive evidence doesn't and shouldn't imply that said evidence doesn't exist.
You've spent years...well so have some of the us who originally started out as patriotic and supportive of our current administration's claims after 9/11. It's heart-wrenching to see it for what it is and to be faced with no other choice but to scrutinize the actions and intent of your government (both past and present), only to succumb to being labeled as just another "conspiracy theorist" when you attempt to make your findings known to others. It's not pleasurable to weigh the evidence that 9/11 in fact does NOT appear to be the work of a terrorist organization in Afghanistan (and Iraq doesn't even enter into the equation as no ties have been substantiated to date), but instead carried out by officials in Pakistan's ISI, funded by people within our own country: http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?geop...
No, I don't like having to admit that to myself as I'm sure few others do, but the truth is worth knowing. Our country was changed for the worse after 9/11, and that is incredibly unfortunate. What's encouraging is that out of this national emergency and the loss of a few thousand of our brothers and sisters, more and more people are beginning to question what's being sold to the public as facts and are looking back at the history of this country, spanning over the last century and a half, in search of answers for why and how we've reached the point we're at now.
Very little in the way of positive change has emerged from the deeply saddening/maddening events of 9/11, but these inquiries are perhaps the most necessary and honestly patriotic endeavor we the people can undertake in an effort to heal our country and ourselves. It's not about causing trouble or making people feel bad for believing the Bush hype or the Clinton hype or the Reagan hype, etc.; it's about caring enough about what this country was founded on and seeking justice for the lives robbed under false pretenses (in the world trade towers just as with our troops in the Middle East).
Additional reading:
9/11: Press For Truth documentary:
http://www.911pressfortruth.com/
NYPD's "Radicalization in the West: The Homegrown Threat" report:
http://www.nypdshield.org/public/SiteFiles/docu...
The Senate Committee on Homeland Security's "Violent Islamist Extremism, The Internet, and the Homegrown Terrorist Threat" 2008 report (co-authored by Joe Lieberman):
http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/IslamistR...
There are also a number of relevant documentaries we're all free to view on:
http://freedocumentaries.org/
I commend you Holly for posting Zeitgeist. It's an excellent, important film. And just wanted to say to Lemur that I appreciated your post up above. Thanks.
AM